Russian President Vladimir Putin “has given orders to commit crimes. It is not simply to demilitarize Ukraine or defeat the Armed Forces of Ukraine, however now cities of peaceable civilians are being destroyed.”
These are the voices of Russian prisoners of warfare now held by Ukraine.
Their public appearances could also be questionable underneath the Geneva Conventions, which forbid states from inflicting pointless humiliation to prisoners of warfare. And it’s attainable that they felt strain to precise views sympathetic to these of their captors.
However three captured Russian air pressure pilots who spoke to CNN didn’t counsel they had been talking underneath duress.
CNN requested entry to talk with the prisoners with the Ukrainian Inside Ministry. That request was made previous to a press convention that happened in Kyiv on Friday. CNN spoke with the three males instantly after that press convention.
CNN had been the one journalists within the room and at no time did Ukrainian Safety Providers, who had been within the room all through, interject or direct CNN or the prisoners to ask or reply particular questions. The interview was performed in Russian.
The prisoners weren’t handcuffed, and whereas they did not transfer from their seats, gave the impression to be underneath no bodily restraint.
We’re reporting the contents of this interview as there seems to be a typical thread showing from different Russian prisoners of warfare talking following their captures — that this isn’t a warfare they need to be preventing.
The three pilots sat round a desk. One in every of them had a gash in his brow, which he stated had been sustained earlier than his seize.
“The remedy has been acceptable. They’ve provided us food and drinks. They provided medical remedy,” stated one pilot, whose first identify is Maxim.
CNN’s interview with the three Russian captives revealed that they’d deep disquiet about their mission and the struggling of Ukrainian civilians. Additionally they had harsh phrases for his or her commander-in-chief, Putin.
And so they spoke of tearful calls house.
Their testimony seems to assist western assessments that there are morale points amongst at the least some Russian troops in Ukraine. On March 1, a senior US official stated the US has “indications that morale is flagging in some” of the Russian models.
“They once more didn’t anticipate the resistance that they had been going to get, and that their very own morale has suffered because of this,” the official stated.
Maxim, an officer and fighter-bomber pilot, did a lot of the speaking. He regarded bruised and really pale however spoke lucidly within the tone of an expert soldier. CNN is utilizing solely the primary names of the prisoners of warfare for their very own safety.
He stated he had solely acquired his “secret fight order” the day earlier than Putin introduced the “particular army operation” towards Ukraine.
The pilots had been requested what they considered Putin’s claims that Ukraine was run by neo-Nazis.
“I believe it was invented as a pretext and is one thing that the world can not perceive,” Maxim stated. “However Putin and his circle want this as a way to obtain their very own goals. One such step was that it might be helpful for them to unfold disinformation about fascism and Nazism.”
“We did not see any Nazis or fascists. Russians and Ukrainians can talk in the identical language, so we see the great (in these individuals),” Maxim stated.
“It is laborious to offer a direct evaluation of his actions. However, on the naked minimal, judging by the implications of his orders, he’s incorrect.”
At a distinct media briefing in the identical venue, a reconnaissance officer known as Vladimir who had been captured instructed a bunch of worldwide reporters, “Our authorities instructed us we have to liberate the civilian inhabitants. I need to inform Russian servicemen: lay down your arms and go away your stations, do not come right here. Everybody needs peace right here.”
Vladimir then went a giant step additional, saying: “I need to inform our commander-in-chief to cease terror acts in Ukraine as a result of once we come again we’ll rise towards him.”
One other reconnaissance officer on the similar occasion echoed the sentiment, addressing Putin instantly.
“You will not disguise this for lengthy. There are numerous like us right here. In the end, we’ll come house.”
Chatting with CNN, Maxim, the pilot, grew to become emotional concerning the struggling inflicted on civilians because the invasion.
“It is not nearly demilitarizing Ukraine or the defeat of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, however now cities of peaceable civilians are being destroyed. Even, I do not know, what can justify, f**ok, the tears of a kid, and even worse, the deaths of harmless individuals, kids.”
He stated they had been conscious of what had occurred in locations like Mariupol, the place practically 1,600 individuals have been killed because the invasion started.
“It is probably the most perverse f**king type of neo-Nazism, neo-fascism. Who might consider such a factor?”
One other pilot, whose first identify is Alexei, added quietly, “It is not likely as much as us, who to bomb, what to bomb. It is a command.”
Captives speak of confusion, reluctance
Maxim and his fellow pilots urged there was widespread disquiet concerning the Ukraine offensive.
“I do know in my unit, they’re completely towards it,” Maxim stated.
“They’ve many kin and associates [in Ukraine], they usually had been instructed it was an operation localized to the DNR [the breakaway Russian-backed Donetsk area], and never an assault on the entire nation. My division was completely towards it.”
“If Ukraine wished to develop into a part of Russia, to strike up some cooperation — by all means. Nobody could be towards that. However to pressure them is simply not acceptable.”
Neil Greenberg is a professor of protection psychological well being at King’s Faculty London. He served within the UK Armed Forces for greater than 20 years and has deployed, as a psychiatrist and researcher, to plenty of hostile environments.
He defined that underneath the Geneva Conference, prisoners of warfare are certain to offer solely their names, rank, date of start and army identification quantity. “That is all it’s important to give so the truth that they’re saying greater than that implies that both they’ve been put in a troublesome state of affairs as a result of they’ve had strain placed on them, or that they’re distressed sufficient that they’ve damaged protocol as a result of they consider what they’re saying,” Greenberg instructed CNN.
“What’s fascinating from a psychological standpoint is that the typical soldier would not typically have the political beliefs of whoever runs the nation. So in the event you ask troopers why they do what they do, they typically say they do it as a result of they’re preventing for one another — we’re a band of brothers and due to this fact we’re going to do what we do as a result of we’re following orders and we glance after one another,” he added.
“It is unlikely that they might have the identical beliefs as Putin so it might be unsuitable to assume robotically that these views weren’t true.”
One other soldier held by the Ukrainians instructed a separate media briefing of his artillery unit’s entry from Belarus down the street to Chernihiv. He teared up as he spoke of assembly locals who instructed his unit to go house, and stated, “There aren’t any fascists right here.”
He additionally spoke of confusion amongst models. His group grew to become caught in a swamp and needed to destroy their infantry preventing car. They wandered on foot for a number of days earlier than reaching a village and surrendering after an alternate of fireplace.
One other Russian soldier — in a video launched by Ukrainian media — stated he had crossed from Crimea on the primary night time of the offensive.
The unnamed soldier, who stated he was 22 years previous and gave his unit’s quantity, stated it was quickly apparent that “we’re not right here as peacekeepers, however to combat. We requested commanders what the f**ok we’re doing right here. We could not flip round and go away. Behind had been the echelons [units] that kill deserters.”
The soldier stated, “We had been instructed there have been no civilians in each settlement. However they had been there. It nervous us.
“We had already realized that missiles had been flying on the civilian inhabitants, towards strange cities however not on army services. Though we had been instructed fairly the alternative. So, we surrendered.”
Final-minute orders
Maxim stated he had acquired his fight orders the day earlier than Putin introduced the invasion.
After which, he stated, there was a shock.
“The order was canceled. A part of the air pressure that had already taken off needed to flip again. We had been pleased and thought that possibly issues had been resolved peacefully.”
He was unsuitable — and shortly acquired a listing of coordinates for targets in jap Ukraine, round Izium and Chuhuiv.
He stated he was unsure what he was hitting. “It is unimaginable to actually know what’s past our state borders. For instance, they mark down a column of tanks. However we can’t be positive if there may be actually one there or not.”
CNN has analyzed a number of situations through which air-dropped bombs have hit civilian areas in Ukraine because the invasion started on February 24.
“We solely dropped non-locating missiles,” Maxim stated, that means what analysts describe as “dumb bombs,” unguided munitions which pose a better threat of inflicting indiscriminate injury.
“I simply used the standard explosive bombs, manufactured from forged iron… the identical type that had been used throughout World Conflict Two with some adjustments right here and there through the years. There are extra trendy ballistic varieties, after all, however the truth stays that we didn’t use these,” Maxim added.
“It is laborious to say at this level whether or not that is pushed by expense, if that is pushed by an absence of stock or if that is simply pushed by a need to be extra brutal within the in using pressure,” a senior NATO official stated on Thursday.
Different Russian troopers captured by the Ukrainians have additionally spoken of last-minute orders.
Sergey, who was with an artillery unit, stated in an earlier media briefing that “at 10:00 am on the twenty third (of February) they had been lined up and instructed by the commander about Putin’s order to assault Ukraine, seize Kyiv and “shield the inhabitants towards the fascism and tyranny in Ukraine.”
An unsure future
The pilots who spoke to CNN had been unsure about how the warfare would finish.
“I hope our superiors have management over the circumstances. How issues are going to develop sooner or later, to make a want for some end result, I am not going to try this right here, to say what I would like,” Maxim stated.
He additionally spoke of his first contact with household again house.
“I stated ‘I am alive’ as a result of it was our first dialog. I instructed them: ‘I am alive and being held captive.’
“We talked about private issues. About our children, the house; not about army stuff.
“After all, we actually need to see our households and family members. To satisfy with them. And hug them as a result of they’re nervous.”
However they had been anxious about what would possibly occur to them, stated Maxim.
“The crimes that we dedicated; all of us might be judged the identical. Apart from that, I can not say. It is unimaginable to guess … They’ll decide us,” stated Maxim.
One other soldier at a distinct briefing expressed comparable emotions.
“It feels horrible to understand our mistake. It would take years, a long time, centuries to restore relations,” he stated.
“I want I might sink into the earth and vanish.”
