MR. DELMONT: Thanks, Jonathan. It is nice to be right here.
MR. CAPEHART: So, let’s begin with that query from James G. Thompson the place he requested, “Ought to I sacrifice my life to stay half American.” Clarify what being, quote, “half American” means on this context and the way that query guided your analysis for this e-book.
MR. DELMONT: So, James Thompson was a 26-year-old from Wichita, Kansas. And he writes that letter to the Pittsburgh Courier in December 1941, shortly after the bombing of Pearl Harbor. Thompson is aware of that he and different Black People are about to be drafted within the army, however on the time, your complete U.S. army is segregated. And so he is asking, when he says, “Ought to I sacrifice my life to stay half American,” is what does it imply for him and different Black People to be drafted into a rustic and a army that is totally segregated, that does not but deal with them as full residents. The Pittsburgh Courier makes use of Thompson’s letter to launch double victory marketing campaign, which turns into the rallying cry for Black People through the struggle. They’re combating for each victory over fascism overseas, but in addition a victory over racism at house.
And for me, the explanation I ended up titling the e-book “Half American” is as a result of these phrases simply caught with me: “Ought to I sacrifice my life to stay half American?” I believe that sentiment that Thompson was asking about stays related immediately, some eight a long time later.
MR. CAPEHART: And there are extra questions in that letter, together with this one which additionally jumped out at me: “Wouldn’t it be demanding an excessive amount of to demand full citizenship rights in trade for the sacrificing of my life? Is the type of America I do know price defending?” You talked in regards to the double victory–the double victory marketing campaign. I might love so that you can discuss extra about that and why that was–why that had such an affect on African People then.
MR. DELMONT: So the double victory marketing campaign was highly effective as a result of for Black People, they acknowledged that it wasn’t only a army battle. Black People have been among the many first to acknowledge the actually dire menace that Hitler and the Nazis posed to the world. Should you have a look at a Black newspaper from the Nineteen Thirties, you’ll see dozens and dozens of articles and editorials speaking in regards to the rise of fascism in Europe. And so African People have been among the many first within the nation to acknowledge that this wasn’t only a drawback for Europe, but it surely was actually an issue america as properly, and that ultimately, the U.S. was going to be drawn into this world struggle. So even years earlier than Pearl Harbor, Black People are already able to battle World Struggle II. And so Black People acknowledged that that battle in opposition to fascism overseas was essential. They acknowledged the army facet of the battle.
However on the identical time, Black People live in a rustic that basically condones racial apartheid in america. Throughout the Jim Crow South, Black People are topic to the lynching, different types of violence. There’s discrimination throughout all points of the nation, whether or not it is New York, Chicago, Los Angeles. And so, for Black People, they acknowledge that it will possibly’t simply be a army victory, it will possibly’t simply be sufficient to defeat the Axis powers, however they’ve to come back house and safe the identical type of freedom and democracy they’re combating for overseas at house. And that is why I believe that concept of the double victory marketing campaign is so highly effective, is as a result of Black People actually noticed these as intertwined struggles, that they completely believed within the army points, that they needed to defeat fascism. However they acknowledged that it did not do any good to defeat Nazism if white supremacy remained the order of the day at house.
MR. CAPEHART: Can I simply take somewhat apart right here? As a result of when I–when I learn this in your e-book, I saved fascinated by these of us–you know, Black journalists at newspapers and tv stations through the 2015–during the 2016 presidential marketing campaign, however who have been watching Donald Trump throughout his marketing campaign in 2015, and we have been saying and writing, attempting to lift the alarm about, hey, take heed to what this man is saying, take him significantly and being told–and I’ve heard from different colleagues in different information retailers the place they have been like, oh, you are being hyperbolic, oh, you are overreacting. And properly, everyone knows what occurred. I might like to get your ideas on that–basically, African People being the not simply canaries within the coal mine–coal mines, but in addition simply kind of, in a wild manner clairvoyant in having the ability to spot issues that lots of people can’t.
MR. DELMONT: And it is an awesome connection, and I commend you and different Black journalists for combating the nice battle on that. And I believe what you are pointing to is there is a lengthy legacy, notably inside the Black press of calling threats to democracy out. I believe that is what’s so highly effective in regards to the Black press as a supply, notably for this book–I relied on the Chicago Defender, Pittsburgh Courier, Baltimore Afro-American, New York Amsterdam News–that these Black newspapers, they have been clear eyed in regards to the threats that Nazis imposed overseas, however they’re additionally clear eyed in regards to the connections between that rise of fascism in Europe and the type of racial discrimination Black People encountered at house. And so for those who return and have a look at these Black newspapers from Nineteen Thirties and 40s, the headlines, editorials have been clear. There was no dancing across the subject. Once they noticed racism, after they noticed the white supremacy, they known as it out, whether or not that was internationally or at house.
I believe the legacy of that’s one which the media would do properly to be taught from immediately. The Black press was described as a combating press, as a result of it was all the time clear what aspect they have been on. They have been combating for actual freedom and democracy in america, notably for Black People. I believe one of many challenges we see within the media immediately is it is too straightforward to fall within the entice of enjoying either side of a problem the place for those who report on how one particular person views the factor and the way another person views the factor, you’ve executed your job. However we all know traditionally that when threats to democracy are posed, we now have to–have to name them out by the identify.
MR. CAPEHART: Yeah, let’s discuss extra about simply who these Black of us within the army have been and the roles that they–that they did. What have been a few of the totally different duties that Black women and men have been assigned through the struggle?
MR. DELMONT: So, one factor that’s essential to recollect is your complete army is segregated in WWII. At first of the struggle, the Marine Corps would not enable any Black males or girls to serve in any respect. That’s not till a pair years into the struggle that you simply get the Montford Level Marines, the primary Black Marines within the Marine Corps. Throughout the Army, by and enormous Black troops weren’t allowed to take part in fight for infantry items. Later within the struggle, there have been plenty of Black items that participated in fight. However typically talking, the greater than one million Black People who served within the army, within the Army, they have been in provide and logistical roles. And they also performed actually essential roles behind the scenes by way of loading and unloading ships, driving vehicles, clearing jungles, constructing runways, quite a lot of the type of grueling backbreaking labor that is not glamorous. It is not the type of stuff that exhibits up in Hollywood movies. But it surely was the actually important work that helped to win the struggle.
Throughout the Navy, initially, Black women and men are solely allowed to serve–Black males are solely allowed to function mess attendants, the place they’ll basically wait on and serve White officers. And what’s essential about that’s that these have been technically non-combat roles. However after all, for those who’re on a Navy ship or a submarine, and Nazi submarines begin firing at you, you are at struggle. And so a few of the best heroes from WWII amongst Black People have been mess attendants, so of us like Doris Miller within the battle of Pearl Harbor. Though he wasn’t educated on his ship’s machine weapons, as soon as the battle began, as soon as Japanese bombers began bombing his ship, he went above board, grabbed one of many weapons, and began firing again at these Japanese ships.
So, what’s inspiring in regards to the tales of Black service throughout WWII is, the army did virtually every thing they may to attempt to denigrate Black patriotism and Black service. However regardless of all of that, Black People served their nation proudly and performed actually essential roles in serving to American allies win the struggle.
MR. CAPEHART: So most likely probably the most well-known of the WWII Black American troopers are the Tuskegee Airmen. However one factor I did not know was about an built-in unit of Black Marines and the roles they performed in Saipan and Iwo Jima. Speak about that.
MR. DELMONT: Yeah, in order I simply talked about, firstly of the struggle, the Marine Corps would not enable any Black males to serve within the Marines, and that is discouraging. It is an affront to the patriotism of Black People who’ve participated in each army battle america has ever been part of. However by way of persistent activism and protest, ultimately the Marine Corps begins an experimental unit known as the Montford Level Marines coaching in my Montford Level, in North Carolina. That unit trains for 2 years stateside, after which ultimately deploys to the Pacific theater, the place they play a extremely essential position on the Battle of Saipan and Battle of Iwo Jima. What was essential about their service there may be that they helped to fill out the Marine Corps’ forces, that these have been battles that prolonged for much longer than army planners anticipated. And they also actually wanted the Montford Level Marines there on the bottom doing the work that they have been doing.
What was additionally essential by way of the bigger story of the struggle is that they earned the respect of their White Marine comrades and the Marine Corps management that originally firstly of the struggle, the individuals who have been in control of Marine Corps, they did not need something to do with Black People. However by 1944, after these Montford Level Marines have demonstrated what they will do in fight, then the commandant of the Marines says these are Marines totally, that they’ve confirmed themselves as Marines. That is actually an essential turning level as a result of it helps some of the entrenched branches of the army, one which was most reticent to simply accept Black People, it helps them lastly see that Black People can play a extremely essential position in fight and helps open the door to later desegregation of the army.
MR. CAPEHART: One hero on this e-book, I believe individuals know from one facet of his life–and I am considering of–I am speaking about Medgar Evers, who’s a hero of the civil rights motion. We learn about his later work, however he was within the army. He earned, as you write, two Bronze Stars on the beachhead of Normandy, in northern France. He celebrated his twenty first birthday in 1946 by main a bunch of Black veterans who tried to register to vote in Decatur, Mississippi, however he was turned away by a White mob with weapons. Speak in regards to the fullness of Medgar Evers, perhaps how his service within the army knowledgeable his civil rights service as soon as he received house.
MR. DELMONT: Medgar Evers’ story actually encapsulates the a lot broader African American expertise through the struggle. So, he really drops out of highschool when he is 17 and volunteers for the Army. He enlisted in 1943, and by 1944, his unit deploys to Normandy. They arrive in Normandy simply days after the D Day invasion in June of 1944. He is a part of the 325th Port Battalion. And so the type of work he was doing was indicative of the actually essential provide and logistical work that different Black troops did. His unit was in control of unloading allied ships, taking off ammunition, different provides, after which loading them onto vehicles. They loaded them onto vehicles known as the Purple Ball Categorical, which was a bunch of Black truck drivers who drove provides all throughout Europe after D Day and really what made it doable for the Allies to push into Germany in these months after the D Day invasion. And so it actually helped lay the groundwork for the type of marketing campaign that the frontline fight troops have been capable of make. With out the work of those provide items, allied troops could not transfer, shoot, or eat. And Medgar Evers is considered one of 1000’s of black People enjoying this sort of on the bottom position there.
What Evers finally ends up saying, although, is that when he’s in France, it opens up his eyes to what’s doable. Encountering White individuals in France, he says was the primary time he ever felt like he was handled totally as a human by a White particular person. And it was radically totally different than what he encountered when he was in Mississippi. And so he is solely 19 on the time. When he comes again on the finish of the struggle, he went again to Mississippi and dedicates his life to combating for civil rights as a result of he sees one other world is feasible, one other manner of partaking throughout racial divides as doable.
As you simply famous, although, he encounters intense resistance in Mississippi. That complete era of Black veterans, they arrive again and begin combating for civil rights. However too usually, notably within the South, they encounter White residents who need to guarantee that that system of Jim Crow segregation is maintained, that these racial hierarchies are maintained. So, 1946, on his twenty first birthday, Evers leads a bunch of Black veterans to attempt to register to vote in Decatur, Mississippi, however they’re turned away by a White mob with weapons, which I believe encapsulates the true stress that was happening in these years instantly following the struggle. Black veterans had simply fought for his or her nation, they risked their lives, they wished the chance to be full residents, they need to go to vote, however they nonetheless weren’t allowed to vote in most components of the South.
In Mississippi, for instance, lower than 1 % of Black adults have been registered to vote due to a long time of discrimination and intentional racial violence and intimidation. No matter Evers later says about that incident of attempting to register to vote is that, you recognize, he and different Black troops had been in Omaha Seaside, that they had fought for America, together with Mississippi and in any case that, after the Germans hadn’t killed them, it regarded like White Mississippians would.
Evers continues to dedicate life to civil rights. He takes on more and more essential roles within the NAACP in Mississippi until the Fifties. He helps examine the lynching of Emmett Until in 1955. After which he retains combating for civil rights and voting rights till he is tragically assassinated in 1963.
And I believe the ultimate two factors I might add right here can be the killer of Medgar Evers was Byron De La Beckwith, who himself was a army veteran. And in reality, it is his fingerprints on his registration for the Marine Corps that helps to result in his eventual seize and arrest, and likewise the decades-long advocacy by Myrlie Evers-Williams, Medgar’s widow. And the final piece I might add is Evers is buried at Arlington Nationwide Cemetery.
And so it is the place I conclude one of many chapters in regards to the homecoming of Black troops, that for me, after we inform the story of Medgar Evers, inform the story about how he devoted his life to civil rights and the way the entire era of Black veterans fought for civil rights, we take into consideration how he is buried at Arlington Nationwide Cemetery. Once we take into consideration what it means to be an American, we ought to be fascinated by individuals like Medgar Evers, as a result of he really gave every thing in his life to make America a greater place.
MR. CAPEHART: Certainly, he did. And listening to you recount simply the fullness of his life there–his army service and his civil rights service–I am sitting right here considering, how galling should it have been for these troopers to stay the life they have been residing right here within the nation, go abroad to battle for this nation, and be proud to do it in quite a lot of instances–conflicted, let’s simply be clear–but proud to serve their nation solely to come back again and be handled worse than they have been on the battlefield. I might love to listen to from you simply any tales, any proof you could have of troopers simply opening up their hearts to what it meant to them to come back again to america and to be handled so horribly.
MR. DELMONT: I ought to say this was a tough e-book to put in writing for that motive, to learn these tales, to take heed to the oral historical past interviews of Black veterans and the utter disrespect they encountered after they returned to the nation. Tales Black veterans shared was that after they received again to the nation, there weren’t parades for them. In truth, after they received off ships, they have been directed to go to the Black solely part of town–right?–that they instantly got here again to segregation. They have been in some instances threatened and attacked whereas nonetheless carrying their army uniforms. Within the e-book, I recount that not less than 12 Black World Struggle II veterans have been killed instantly after the–in the years instantly after the struggle, partly as a result of they have been beginning to battle for civil rights, and that the communities they got here again to, the White communities, did not need something to do with that. They wished to take care of the established order within the racial hierarchy.
I believe what’s inspiring in regards to the tales of those Black veterans is that they did not surrender, that they have been really combating for America, not solely within the army sense, however combating for the nation to be a greater model of itself to truly have actual freedom and democracy for everybody in america. And I hope greater than something with the e-book that I’ve tried to do justice to the service of those Black veterans, as a result of they really are–if we’ll use the time period “the Biggest Era,” I believe they really are members of the best era.
One of many tales that caught with me was an oral historical past interview with a person named Robert P. Madison. He was a member of the 92nd Infantry Division who fought in Italy and earned a Purple Coronary heart in fight there. After the struggle, he comes again, he makes use of the GI Invoice to earn architectural levels from Case Western and from Harvard College. He finally ends up opening a pioneering architectural agency in Cleveland, Ohio. In his 70s or 80s, he goes to a bookstore–and he is telling the story. He says he goes to bookstore, goes to the good shelf of books on WWII, he takes a e-book off the shelf. It’s an awesome massive e-book, flips by way of it, and sees no reference in any respect to the work of Black troopers through the struggle. And his quote which caught with me stated, “We have been a forgotten group of individuals.”
And I believe for us immediately, after we assume again to WWII, it is too easy–particularly for White People, it’s too straightforward to consider that point being a interval of racial unity when by some means the nation was extra united than we’re immediately. However the actuality is, that simply is not true. Throughout WWII, america was deeply divided by way of race. In 1943, there have been greater than 240 race riots or racial clashes all throughout the nation. And so I believe we take into consideration the relevance of this historical past immediately, we have to perceive that America has been attempting to reckon with this historical past of racism and racial discrimination for many years and a long time, and we now have to incorporate WWII as a part of that story.
MR. CAPEHART: You understand, you simply talked about the GI Invoice there, speaking about–I consider you stated Mr. Robert P. Madison. And that will get to an viewers query that I need to deliver up as a part of speaking in regards to the bigger difficulty of the GI Invoice. Craig Howell from right here in Washington, D.C., asks was the GI Invoice of Rights intentionally written to exclude as many Black veterans as doable?
MR. DELMONT: That is a superb query. And so for those who have a look at the language of the GI Invoice, it by no means explicitly says that it’ll discriminate in opposition to Black troops. It makes use of what we might now name colorblind language. However if you look again on the data, it was deliberately written to be distributed on the state and native stage. And so it comes by way of committees which can be dominated by southern segregationist politicians. And it is essential as a result of everybody on the time acknowledges that for those who do issues on the federal stage, it means that there is a likelihood that it will likely be distributed equitably, that you simply’ll even have the federal backing to guarantee that everybody has equal entry to those advantages. However for those who distribute it on the state and native stage, that signifies that totally different states and localities can use their native preferences and their native race legal guidelines to have the ability to decide who does and doesn’t get these advantages. And so the truth that the southern segregationist senators made positive that it was distributed on the state and native stage does imply that it was deliberately arrange in a manner that everybody knew it was going to discriminate in opposition to Black veterans.
And that is what occurred. Should you have a look at the years instantly following the struggle, Black veterans weren’t capable of get these VA-backed mortgages on the identical fee that White veterans have been. They weren’t ready to make use of the school tuition advantages on the identical fee that White veterans have been. And so they weren’t capable of get the job placement advantages on the identical fee that White veterans have been. The GI Invoice is probably crucial piece of laws within the twentieth century. It is what helped White veterans and their households transfer into the center class. However for 1000’s and 1000’s of Black veterans, they weren’t capable of entry these advantages in the identical manner.
And that has actual repercussions immediately. There is a group at Brandeis College that is calculated what this implies by way of on a regular basis funds immediately. And so they discovered that on common Black veterans’ advantages, GI advantages from WWII, have been solely price about 40 % of those who White veterans acquired. Over a lifetime, that is about $100,000 distinction. And so after we have a look at the huge racial wealth hole that exists within the nation immediately, quite a lot of that may be traced again to the GI Invoice and the discrimination that was written into it.
MR. CAPEHART: And in reality, you additionally say that this lack of entry to GI Invoice advantages prevented the nation from benefiting from a complete era of Black professionals.
MR. DELMONT: Precisely. I believe it is an essential level to not get misplaced, within the story of the GI Invoice, is that whereas the overwhelming majority of African People met discrimination after they tried to entry the GI Invoice advantages, there have been 1000’s and 1000’s of Black People who have been ready to make use of the GI Invoice. I discussed Robert Madison earlier. He used it to earn architectural levels. Dovey Johnson Roundtree, who was a girl within the Girls’s Army Corps, used the GI Invoice to earn a regulation diploma from Howard College. And he or she opens up a regulation agency in Washington, D.C., and wins crucial civil rights instances in Fifties and ’60s. There are dozens of tales like that, that Black veterans who have been ready to make use of the GI Invoice, use it to do great, great issues. And so I believe past simply the overt discrimination, there’s additionally a chance value to the nation, that if we think about the GI Invoice had been distributed equitably to Black veterans, we might have had a complete nother era of Black engineers and legal professionals and docs and academics that we did not have due to discrimination there.
MR. CAPEHART: You write this–your e-book is all about Black women and men who have been a part of the army. We have talked a little–we’ve talked in regards to the journalists who’re at house writing about Germany and the struggle and what was taking place with fascism. However you also–you additionally embody Thurgood Marshall and Langston Hughes. They’re a part of this story. Why embody them? Why was it essential so that you can embody them on this e-book?
MR. DELMONT: What I believe is so essential about taking a look at WWII from the African American perspective is that it actually forces you to deliver collectively the house entrance points of the story and the army points of the story, what was taking place overseas. So, Thurgood Marshall is finest often called the primary Black Supreme Courtroom justice. However through the struggle, he is the pinnacle of the NAACP’s authorized department. And his job is to journey all throughout the nation to research these instances of violence in opposition to Black troops. One of many issues that lots of people won’t understand is that when Black troops received despatched to the military coaching bases, notably within the U.S. South, they encountered intense, intense violence, each on base and off base. Issues received so dangerous that Black troops have been writing to the NAACP and to different Black newspapers and saying we might really feel safer if we really deployed to the European theater or the Pacific theater than we really feel on these army bases in Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia.
And so it is Thurgood Marshall’s job to research these and to attempt to maintain army leaders to account, to pressure them to truly do one thing about it. And so the type of work he does through the struggle actually lays the muse for the civil rights profession he has afterwards with Brown versus Board and every thing that comes after it.
With Langston Hughes, he’s within the first chapter of the e-book as a result of he was a struggle correspondent past being an acclaimed poet. He was a struggle correspondent for The Baltimore African American. He travels to Spain in 1937 to report on the greater than 80 Black volunteers who went to battle within the Spanish Civil Struggle. And so that is a part of the story of how for Black People WWII actually begins earlier than Pearl Harbor. Black People see the rise of fascism in Germany, in Italy, and in Spain, and so they need to do one thing about it. And there is greater than 80 volunteers who’re brave sufficient to go battle within the Spanish Civil Struggle to battle in opposition to fascism and Basic Franco’s forces there.
Langston Hughes is fascinated by that truth. He is questioning what would it not imply for these Black People to try this. Why are they going over there? And so he goes there. He is within the frontline trenches with these volunteers. He is in inns which can be getting bombed and shelled by Nazi and Italian planes. And he writes tales that report again on this, again to Black People at house. And so for Black People on the house entrance, by 1937-38, they have been already studying tales from Langston Hughes and from others about this rise of fascism and the battle in opposition to it.
And what’s essential in regards to the Spanish Civil Struggle instance is that these Black volunteers have been in fight items. So, on the identical time, they could not be in fight items within the American army, they have been in fight items in Spain, and so they’re combating in built-in items, shoulder to shoulder with White volunteers from all world wide. And so on the identical time that the U.S. army was segregated, you could have these volunteers combating in built-in fight forces in Spain. Later within the struggle, there are different Black generals who take up Hughes’ position as a struggle correspondents, of us like Ollie Stewart, Trezzvant Anderson, Roi Ottley, who actually telling essential tales in regards to the unglamorous and largely unsung work that the Black troops did through the struggle. They’re roughly the equal of Ernie Pyle who’s the well-known White correspondent through the struggle. And so I attempted to rely extensively on their protection as a result of they inform tales in regards to the struggle that you simply simply do not discover elsewhere.
MR. CAPEHAR: You understand, to be clear, not all people was wild about fighting–putting on the uniform and combating for america. You study the views of these inside the Black neighborhood who thought america wasn’t price combating for. What –why? Why embody these views?
MR. DELMONT: In order that quote we began off with from James Thompson, “Ought to I sacrifice my life to stay half American, is the America I do know price defending,” virtually each African American who was of draft age was asking some model of that query to themselves, and so they have been answering in numerous methods. And so it is essential within the bigger story of the struggle, that whereas greater than one million Black People served within the struggle, there have been 1000’s that refused to serve, as a result of after they regarded on the race document of the U.S., checked out their each day situations and Mississippi or in New York or in Los Angeles, they could not deliver themselves to battle for a rustic that was treating them terribly, that was treating them as half American and treating them as second-class residents.
Much more broadly, they have been frightened about what it meant for america to affix forces with Nice Britain and France, nations that had in depth colonies all internationally. They did not see america and its allies combating for a type of world that they wished to create. They envisioned a special model of the world. These have been a comparatively small variety of Black People general, however they’re vitally essential tales to inform as a result of it provides us a way of the totally different political beliefs inside the Black neighborhood. Somebody like Bayard Rustin, for instance, who goes on to have an esteemed civil rights career–he’s the architect of the Sixties at March on Washington–he spends three years in a federal penitentiary through the struggle as a result of he is a pacifist and refuses to simply accept the draft order to affix the U.S. army. And he is only one instance of a Black American on the time who regarded on the struggle effort, acknowledged the true menace that Nazi Germany posed, however did not see america and the army construction, the segregated army as one thing that they noticed match to affix.
MR. CAPEHART: I need to shut out by studying one thing on the finish of your e-book and get you to within the closing couple minutes that we now have to speak somewhat additional. You write, “It’s unimaginable to know activist and former NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick’s determination to protest police violence by kneeling through the nationwide anthem and the uproar that adopted with out first understanding the historical past of Black protests throughout WWII.” I believed that was a pleasant linkage between the previous and the current. Shut us out by telling us extra about that.
MR. DELMONT: I hope one factor that comes by way of clearly on this story about WWII is that patriotism and dissent have all the time gone hand in hand for Black People. And I have been considering lots in regards to the which means of the American flag as I used to be scripting this e-book. The examples from the e-book are there were–there was a race riot in Beaumont, Texas in 1943. A bunch of Whites went right into a Black neighborhood and so they burned down a number of buildings, together with a radio retailer, that was one of many kind of key companies on the town. One of many photographs that will get circulated after that could be a American flag that is been burned as a result of White townspeople in Beaumont burned this constructing to the bottom. And so I saved taking a look at that image and take into consideration what it meant for White townspeople in Texas to burn the American flag alongside this Black neighborhood.
Later within the struggle, after Normandy and the D Day invasion, Black troops recounted seeing their White counterparts, their fellow White troops raised the Accomplice flag both alongside or as an alternative of the celebs and stripes after they would take over these cities in France. And so they simply needed to shake their head, as a result of they acknowledged what the Accomplice flag meant. It meant slavery and it meant a return to the type of racial hierarchies that they have been attempting to battle for–to battle in opposition to and attempting to depart behind. What exhibits up in a Black newspaper after that was an editorial that’s asking what’s improper with the celebs and stripes that you’d have these White troops flying the Accomplice flag as an alternative?
And so I believe it is essential for us immediately to know that for Black People, the American flag has all the time been a really, very difficult image and that WWII helps to offer us a perspective on what it meant for these Black veterans to each battle for the flag, but in addition battle to make the flag price one thing to battle for, that patriotism and dissent have been all the time intertwined for these Black veterans. And if we will not perceive that historical past, if we will not reckon actually with that historical past of WWII, we actually haven’t any likelihood of understanding the type of America we’re residing in immediately.
MR. CAPEHART: Matthew Delmont, writer of “Half American: The Epic Story of African People Combating WWII at Dwelling and Overseas,” thanks a lot for coming to “Capehart” on Washington Submit Reside.
MR. DELMONT: Thanks lots, Jonathan. It was a pleasure being right here.
MR. CAPEHART: And thanks for becoming a member of us. To take a look at what interviews we now have arising, go to WashingtonPostLive.com. As soon as once more, I’m Jonathan Capehart, affiliate editor at The Washington Submit. Thanks for watching “Capehart” on Washington Submit Reside.
